Fannish Friday 5

[nolivingman]

Name your five favorite foreign-language films/series.

Where foreign is foreign to you, no matter what languages you consider your own.

Comments

[eumelia]

Um, okay, this FF5 is worded problematically. I don't live in an anglophone country and I'm pretty sure a lot of other people who follow this don't either.

You're defaulting English, which while it's true a large number of our favourite things to be fannish about are in English and originate from English speaking countries, I don't appreciate being marginalised in this manner.

I realise this may seem like an over reaction to you, but seriously, it's a bit problematic to phrase it in that manner.

"Non-English Language" would have been fine, though the whole framing of this FF5 is questionable.

[softestbullet]

I agree.

[nolivingman]

I meant foreign to you no matter what your language; I intentionally didn't say. I will make that clarification, but at no time did I even mention an English default.

[jaaaarne]

I don't think you need to explain simple things. If a person wants to get offended they will.

[nolivingman]

I meant foreign to you no matter what your language; I intentionally didn't say. I will make that clarification, but at no time did I even mention an English default.

[eumelia]

Thank you.

You don't need to mention English being the default, that's the implication.

[jaaaarne]

Er... to tell you the truth, I didn't get that impression at all. Unless the entry was somehow edited to change the wording? The way it's worded now I don't really see why there would be a problem or any implications. "Foreign-language films/series" seems absolutely okay to me.

[eumelia]

Foreign in relation to what?

Zie added the second bit after I commented the first time. Without that clause the implication is that "foreign" is as used for the Academy Awards, wherein the category is a film not spoken in English.

Most countries in the world do not use English as an official language, that defaults English as the official language, when it isn't.

[pale_moonlite]

Without that clause the implication is that "foreign" is as used for the Academy Awards, wherein the category is a film not spoken in English.

I certainly didn't see it like that. The Academy Awards are American, and for them a foreign language is a language that isn't English, sure. But I don't see why it should be the same for me. I don't think Academy Awards first when I think of films.

I'm German, and for me English is one example of a foreign language. And I read it that way when it was first posted, thinking about what would be my favorite English language movie, which is very hard to decide upon.

[eumelia]

I used the academy awards as an example for what happens when one uses "foreign" as a category.

[pale_moonlite]

Yes, of course. But it doesn't make sense. The American point of view is not everyone's point of view. And if I were to use "foreign language" as a category, it wouldn't be "non-English" but "non-German." And so "foreign language" merely means "language not your own," nothing more. Except you have a completely America-centric world view, which I didn't think was the case here.

[eumelia]

Granted, but considering that for many in fandom the vast majority of the media consumed (books, films, series etc) is in English, I don't think it's that far fetched to consider the implication being non-English.

Even if that wasn't the intention, that is what what was implied. Especially considering this post and the majority of fandom on Dreamwidth being in English.

[pale_moonlite]

I don't think it was what was implied. The mod says they meant foreign to you no matter what your language, and I believe them. While this post and the majority of fandom on DW might be in English, I doubt that English is the native language of everyone. It's simply a means to understand one another, and it may be a "foreign" language to many.

[eumelia]

Okay dude, the mod added the second part after my first comment.

It was changed and I (and I'm sure others) appreciate it. That is all.

[pale_moonlite]

It was of course nice of the mod to change it, since it bothered you so much.

[jaaaarne]

Notice how you're still the only one on the comments who insists on getting such an implication, huh. ;)

+ 1

[vane_nt]

My thoughts, exactly. :-)

[jaaaarne]

Foreign in relation to native, obviously. But why would you need a relation, anyway? Are you unsure of what "native" is to you? Is there even a choice?

I'm really sorry, but if you're viewing "foreign" from the perspective of Oscar award it being the first association you get on hearing this word, then it probably means that you're defaulting your POV to English yourself. Or that you're probably a big-big cinema fan. :D

Let me give a practical example. When I personally hear the word "foreign", I think "non-Russian". As in, non-native for myself. Films, music, cars, devices, people, countries etc. All that is not Russian is foreign. :) It could never occur to me to assume that "foreign" = "non-English", because English is foreign! :D It doesn't really need any clarifications, IMO. Adding that second line to the original post makes it sound like the OP is speaking to idiots who don't know what a word "foreign" means. No offence, sorry.

[turlough]

"Non-English Language" would have been fine

Really??!! That would have been less parochial than "foreign"?!

[eumelia]

Ack! *groan*

Yes, indeed, you are right, that was a very bad turn of phrase and pretty much undermined my point.

Still, other than that sentence, I pretty much stand by what I said in my comment.

[turlough]

And as a non-English speaker I maintain that your original comment did exactly what you accused the OP of, namely defaulted to an English-centric mindset.

[jaaaarne]

Exactly.

[birgitriddle]

http://birgitriddle.dreamwidth.org/875798.html

[pale_moonlite]

http://pale-moonlite.dreamwidth.org/28946.html

[dragonscrawl]

http://dragonscrawl.dreamwidth.org/381503.html

[azurejay]

For the record, English is my first language (I live in Canada, however, and have historical context for my opinion that language rights are important), and I'm also unimpressed with the wording of the prompt. I modified it in my response post--my choice isn't perfect either, but still.

http://azurejay.dreamwidth.org/213383.html?format=light

[wild_fiore]

http://wild-fiore.dreamwidth.org/5428.html